Thi Le is the chef and co-owner, with her partner Jia-Yen “JY” Lee, of Anchovy restaurant in Richmond, and its neighbouring banh mi bar, Ca Com. Le has just published her first book, Viet Kieu, which its publisher, Murdoch Books, describes as “a looking glass into the essence of Vietnamese cuisine, and its place in the life of Vietnamese people across the world in the twenty-first century”.
Le counts herself as a Viet Kieu – “a person of Vietnamese ancestry living abroad, a foreigner in a familiar country” – and as well as covering her takes on chicken congee, can chua chanh day (a sweet and sour fish soup with passionfruit) and prawn goi salad with nuoc mam dressing, she and Yen also detail how she has navigated and understood that identity over the years, both at work and at home.
Here’s Thi and JY on the book, their work and the importance of the music of Teddy Swims in their creative process.
I wrote most of Viet Kieu…
Thi Le: In absolute shock that domestic violence was still making front page news in 2024. I decided to share a lot of my personal history because I felt I needed to shine a light on domestic violence. There were articles about women getting murdered and children getting abused – these stories had a two-fold impact on me – one, because the stories making headlines were largely of migrant backgrounds, and two, it reminded me of the trauma I experienced growing up. At first glance, the narrative arc in Viet Kieu touches on a lot of personal stories that might appear incongruous alongside a cookbook; however, it was through cooking that I have been able to express myself and explore my own history.
Jia-Yen Lee: Listening to two songs – “Lose Control” by Teddy Swims and “Golden Hour” by JVKE, but mainly the former. I normally settle on a song or two when I write; the repetition helps me focus and get in the zone. The idea and bones of it had been brewing since January ’22 (when we signed the contract to write a book) and it took a while for it all to come together. Once we settled on the name Viet Kieu, though. everything seemed to fall into place.
The subtitle is “recipes remembered from Vietnam”. What does that mean?
Thi: This subtitle widens the lens on Vietnamese cooking and cookery – cataloguing recipes at risk of being lost through generations and documenting the influences of Vietnam’s ethnic tribes and history on the cuisine. I wanted to produce a book that represented a true modern-day reference of Vietnamese cuisine wherever you are in the world while acknowledging the roots of the cuisine.
The main thing I learned writing it was…
Thi: The correlation of the regional differences in Vietnamese cuisine with the ethnic tribes in the areas really jumped out at me. It was something I’d been vaguely aware of, but writing the book made those connections very clear to me.
The other big thing I learned is probably that my current support network is amazing.
JY: that conversations around the cuisine often use the term Vietnamese as a short-hand to refer to a nationality, an ancestry, a heritage and a culture, oftentimes interchangeably. The lack of distinction can lead to misunderstanding around how parts of a cuisine or a dish is interpreted and executed. It then leads into a wider conversation around the duality of acculturation and authenticity, and the perceived value of a cuisine.
What’s the best thing about being a Viet Kieu?
Thi: As a Viet Kieu in Australia, I get to enjoy the luxury of appreciating the two different camps and cultures I straddle, which leads to a richer life for me. I am just as comfortable discussing the nuances of, for example, Aussie-Chinese food as I am discussing the nuances of Vietnamese cuisine with my mother and her social network. Beyond the food, my identity is more layered and allows me the benefit of traversing today’s modern and globalised society more fluently.
What’s the key thing you’d like people to better understand about Vietnamese food, or Vietnamese food in Australia?
Thi: The southern roots of so many Vietnamese migrants to Australia means that here we have a picture of Vietnamese food that leans very southern, while in Vietnam the food is more diverse. There is much more to Vietnamese cuisine than just banh mi, pho, salads and gois. Even then, the contemporary Australian palate is perhaps more familiar with local stereotypes of banh mi, pho and the salads rather than truly appreciating the nuances within those categories.
JY: Vietnamese cuisine with traces of “other” ingredients or influences of “other” cuisines is not fusion, just as a Vietnamese-Australian (Viet Kieu) whose life has been influenced by other identities and cultures in Australia is not a person who identifies as Vietnamese-fusion. For a chef like Thi, the cuisine of her ancestry is a craft – something to be studied and to be respected, where contemporary techniques (or technique borrowed from other traditions, such as velveting from the Chinese tradition) is introduced to a dish to refine an aspect of the dish (such as the mouthfeel) rather than to blindly elevate the dish. Vietnamese cuisine is not something that should be simplified or stereotyped to suit modern palates; it should neither be romanticised with notions of ‘traditional cuisine’ nor should it be simplified to the point that it diminishes the history and heritage of a 2,000-year-old cuisine.
If you take one thing from this book, it should be…
Thi: Vietnamese cuisine is about progression and adapting, with its many nuances and influences. Globally, the Vietnamese diaspora is huge, and there are Viet Kieus like me and the third-culture kids who use the cuisine to represent their time and place. And you’re the keeper of your own path. Resilience is incredibly powerful. You have to find the smallest things in life to get out of bed for, and stay positive.
I’d love it if you made…
Thi: The grilled prawns with fermented bean curd on page 98. Fermented bean curd is very flavourful, very versatile but so underutilised. You can use it to sauce or glaze vegetables, meat and seafood. In fact, there is a corresponding recipe in the book for lamb and fermented bean curd on page 168 that demonstrates the versatility of this sauce. The story behind grilled prawns and fermented bean curd is also one that is very dear to me and was a turning point in my relationship with my mother.
If you’re a relatively new cook, why don’t you try making…
Thi: The white-cut pork on page 196. It has a very desirable effort-to-reward-ratio. It is something that one, can be done ahead of time, two, impress others very easily, three, quintessentially Vietnamese.
If you’re looking to extend yourself a bit more, meanwhile…
Thi: Look at making your own cốm mẻ and then make chả cá lã vọng. Cốm mẻ is a fermented rice brew that can be used in sauces and bases to acid body and acidity, and a key ingredient in chả cá lã vọng. Chả cá lã vọng is a celebrated fried fish dish from the northern Vietnamese repertoire, laden with turmeric and fish sauce. It can come across quite heavy, and cốm mẻ helps to lighten it while somehow also adding richness. Chả cá lã vọng is versatile in that you can have it solo as a home meal or eat it as part of a dinner party (where it’s always a hit). The other thing I love about chả cá lã vọng is the dill. Dill is often more associated with European cooking, but its use is common in northern Vietnam and also in Laos.
When you’ve finished reading Viet Kieu I hope you’ll…
Thi: Better appreciate the nuances of Vietnamese cuisine. Migrant food doesn’t have to only reflect ‘traditional’ in the classic sense. It can be an interpretation of the individual and their influences. There are so many different styles of cookery influenced by regional variations and also Viet Kieu variations. At Anchovy I hope our guests can leave their preconceptions of what a dish should be at the door and eat a dish for what it is. The thing I value the most about Vietnamese cookery is the balance of flavours and textures, and I hope that ‘balance and textures’ is something you take away from this book. If you understand that component in Vietnamese cuisine, then you’re already halfway there.
JY: I hope you’ll appreciate the value of Vietnamese cuisine beyond its stereotypes. Much of Vietnamese cuisine is informed by a craft or skill. It is easy to overlook the technique required to execute dishes in favour of ease or convenience. Such an attitude runs the risk of diminishing the perceived worth of the cuisine.
Viet Kieu by Thi Le ($55.00, Murdoch Books) is available now, including from independent local retailers such as Hill of Content, Readings, and Books for Cooks.